TRIMMING POSTS -- PLEASE ???!!!
The saga of 'Michelle' (iirc) and her Linux problems is no doubt fascinating but could we possibly stop wasting bandwidth by broadcasting the entire sorry saga time and time again ... just asking. Aside from any other considerations it makes it difficult to determine whether there is any new data on the case. Far be it from me to speculate on whether the poster is just a wee bit batty .....
YES I FIND THIS MUCH LESS ANNOYING, THANKS WILLIAM 😉 Battiness aside, I suspect the answer to Michelle's problem isn't Whonix on Qubes on an old laptop. It sounds like excessive engineering for no good reason. Did anyone else have similar thoughts? If I were going full-on paranoia mode, I'd be running TAILS, probably with a grsecurity-patched kernel, and probably through an offshore VPN. What do you guys think? E -- Securely sent with Tutanota. It's good, you should try it: https://tutanota.com
6. Jun 2016 23:32 by will@artcontrol.me:
IS THIS BETTER? _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | > wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: > https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
I would be trending to a tent inside a faraday cage, at least 50kms from the nearest populated town. :p
Sent from my iPhone
On 6/06/2016, at 11:41 PM, Eric Light eric@ericlight.com wrote:
YES I FIND THIS MUCH LESS ANNOYING, THANKS WILLIAM 😉
Battiness aside, I suspect the answer to Michelle's problem isn't Whonix on Qubes on an old laptop. It sounds like excessive engineering for no good reason. Did anyone else have similar thoughts?
If I were going full-on paranoia mode, I'd be running TAILS, probably with a grsecurity-patched kernel, and probably through an offshore VPN. What do you guys think?
E
-- Securely sent with Tutanota. It's good, you should try it: https://tutanota.com
- Jun 2016 23:32 by will@artcontrol.me:
IS THIS BETTER? _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Well when I looked at the mailing list page today I was totally shocked to find I'd been maligned and attacked. I know that that happens on other forums (yes I realize this is a mailing list) but I didn't think it would happen here. I guess that I just got schooled.
Perhaps I should say a few things. The only reason for me choosing Linux over windows is security and safety. It may be different for computer experts, but that's it for me.
So anyway I have Mint on my Toshiba and some months back I clicked to a page with info on Oprah Winfrey. The site then clicked on and off and on and off etc. I closed the page and opened history. Here the site was listed maybe 25 to 50 times. Then say that day or the next, my most used folder disappeared from it's space. I found it in the thrash. And that happened with maybe another couple of folders. Someone said that Mint had had problems with a bug/bugs this year/last year?
So anyway I presume that I caught a bug and that it's still there. (Don't worry,the emails I send on this phone and not the Toshiba). This happened inspite of the fact that I use Mozilla, adblock and NoScript, although they may not have been up to date. Computer experts, if their machine gets infected may be able to debug it and be confident that it's clear, but I can't. I figure the best way to protect myself from now on is to have the safest set up from the start. And from a bit of research I did on the net it appears that that maybe Whonix and Qubes.
On 2016-06-07 06:53, Paul Wilson wrote:
I would be trending to a tent inside a faraday cage, at least 50kms from the nearest populated town. :p
Sent from my iPhone
On 6/06/2016, at 11:41 PM, Eric Light eric@ericlight.com wrote:
YES I FIND THIS MUCH LESS ANNOYING, THANKS WILLIAM 😉
Battiness aside, I suspect the answer to Michelle's problem isn't Whonix on Qubes on an old laptop. It sounds like excessive engineering for no good reason. Did anyone else have similar thoughts?
If I were going full-on paranoia mode, I'd be running TAILS, probably with a grsecurity-patched kernel, and probably through an offshore VPN. What do you guys think?
E
-- Securely sent with Tutanota. It's good, you should try it: https://tutanota.com [2]
- Jun 2016 23:32 by will@artcontrol.me:
IS THIS BETTER? _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug [1]
wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug [1]
Links:
[1] https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug [2] https://tutanota.com
wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Hi Michelle, I'm sorry that you feel you've been maligned and attacked.  We do try hard to make this a safe forum for everyone.  For what it's worth, most of us here ARE a bit batty, each in our own way. Security and safety, along with reliability and usability, are also the reasons I use Linux.  You're in good company there. I feel that Whonix+Qubes is over-engineering.  I haven't had any responses to my email last night re TAILS+grsecurity (ALSO over-engineering), but TAILS' lack of persistence makes it a drag for day-to-day use; Whonix sacrifices some security for usability there. What problem are you trying to solve?  What is your threat profile that you're trying to defend yourself against?  If you're just trying to avoid bugs in your distro, you could just go with Debian Stable, which will give you a reliable, secure, and well-known system, with very few "tricky bits". E -- Securely sent with Tutanota. It's good, you should try it: https://tutanota.com
7. Jun 2016 15:43 by michelle400@orcon.net.nz:
Well when I looked at the mailing list page today I was totally shocked to find I'd been maligned and attacked. I know that that happens on other forums (yes I realize this is a mailing list) but I didn't think it would happen here. I guess that I just got schooled.
Perhaps I should say a few things. The only reason for me choosing Linux over windows is security and safety. It may be different for computer experts, but that's it for me.
So anyway I have Mint on my Toshiba and some months back I clicked to a page with info on Oprah Winfrey. The site then clicked on and off and on and off etc. I closed the page and opened history. Here the site was listed maybe 25 to 50 times. Then say that day or the next, my most used folder disappeared from it's space. I found it in the thrash. And that happened with maybe another couple of folders. Someone said that Mint had had problems with a bug/bugs this year/last year?
So anyway I presume that I caught a bug and that it's still there. (Don't worry,the emails I send on this phone and not the Toshiba). This happened inspite of the fact that I use Mozilla, adblock and NoScript, although they may not have been up to date. Computer experts, if their machine gets infected may be able to debug it and be confident that it's clear, but I can't. I figure the best way to protect myself from now on is to have the safest set up from the start. And from a bit of research I did on the net it appears that that maybe Whonix and Qubes.
On 2016-06-07 06:53, Paul Wilson wrote:
I would be trending to a tent inside a faraday cage, at least 50kms from the nearest populated town. :p
Sent from my iPhone
On 6/06/2016, at 11:41 PM, Eric Light <>> eric@ericlight.com>> > wrote:
YES I FIND THIS MUCH LESS ANNOYING, THANKS WILLIAM ��
Battiness aside, I suspect the answer to Michelle's problem isn't Whonix on Qubes on an old laptop. It sounds like excessive engineering for no good reason. Did anyone else have similar thoughts?
If I were going full-on paranoia mode, I'd be running TAILS, probably with a grsecurity-patched kernel, and probably through an offshore VPN. What do you guys think?
E
-- Securely sent with Tutanota. It's good, you should try it: https://tutanota.com%3E%3E%3E [2]
- Jun 2016 23:32 by >>> will@artcontrol.me>>> :
IS THIS BETTER? _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | >>>> wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: >>>> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug%3E%3E%3E%3E [1]
wlug mailing list | >>> wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: >>> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug%3E%3E%3E [1]
Links:
[1] >> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug [2] >> https://tutanota.com
wlug mailing list | >> wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: >> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
wlug mailing list | > wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: > https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Hi, I can only agree with what Eric wrote. I am running Kubuntu, for many years now, without any protection to my system, and I didn't have any problem with it. Because Linux is used by only 1 or 2 percent of the total internet users, it isn't an interestingl target for malware, and thus there is no great need to run virus scanners all the time, as it is on Windows. And then I maintain at least 2 instances of Kubuntu, just in case something happens to the one I am using. (Standard reason: my own stupidity). I have tried to install Qubes on my desktop, and even though my desktop does meet all hardware requirements that Qubes asks for, have had no success in installing it. That isn't unusual with open source software, as most developers simply do not have the resources needed to test their offerings properly. Digging deeper, I found that the developers are rather vague about their risk profile, i.e. what they try to protect against and what they accept as not worth the effort. And without knowing what they think is worth protecting against, how am I able to make up my mind that I should persevere? You did create in your first letter a rather negative impression of yourself. On the other hand, I regard Qubes, with or without Whonix, as the more appropriate response to internet safety, for a person that isn't interesting in hiding her little secrets from the criminal justice system. That is what TAILS is all about, and that is why The Amnesic Incognito Live System is not for me. Investigative journalists and others that sail close to what the law allows love it - you carry it around on a little memory stick and use it only from an Internet Cafe, where you as a person are totally unknown and an investigator is unlikely to find a lead to you. They need the ability to remain incognito and claim amnesia. From what you have told us about yourself, you want one-sided internet access - you can see what is there, but nobody may see and touch you. Whonix promises just that, because its internet access is totally isolated from the rest of your machine. But then you want to download something, so you break the isolation . . . Qubes effectively installs an operating system to take control of your hardware. Then, on top of this, you install an operating system to use for your banking, and another for your day-to-day tasks, and another for internet access, and another for e-mails, and . . . If you are in want of becoming a security neurotic, Qubes will make you one. Consider your risk profile, and consider the options you have, and want to exercise. Be willing to switch off your computer, without allowing it time to save your data, and the malicious stuff lurking between the valuable data. And keep a backup, preferably on a portable drive so that you can pull the plug when you think you need it. What you experienced is unlikely to be totally avoidable, as even the best malware scanner can reliably find and remove malware only after it has been identified, analysed and added. In the weeks until that is done, you are a victim, sorry. And cloud servers, and be sure Oprah Winfreds web page runs on a server, are well protected. But that doesn't mean they are safe to visit. All security stands and falls with your mindset. Wolf
On 07/06/16 16:25, Eric Light wrote:
Hi Michelle,
I'm sorry that you feel you've been maligned and attacked. We do try hard to make this a safe forum for everyone. For what it's worth, most of us here ARE a bit batty, each in our own way.
Security and safety, along with reliability and usability, are also the reasons I use Linux. You're in good company there.
I feel that Whonix+Qubes is over-engineering. I haven't had any responses to my email last night re TAILS+grsecurity (ALSO over-engineering), but TAILS' lack of persistence makes it a drag for day-to-day use; Whonix sacrifices some security for usability there.
What problem are you trying to solve? What is your threat profile that you're trying to defend yourself against? If you're just trying to avoid bugs in your distro, you could just go with Debian Stable, which will give you a reliable, secure, and well-known system, with very few "tricky bits".
E
-- Securely sent with Tutanota. It's good, you should try it: https://tutanota.com
- Jun 2016 15:43 by michelle400@orcon.net.nz
mailto:michelle400@orcon.net.nz:
Well when I looked at the mailing list page today I was totally shocked to find I'd been maligned and attacked. I know that that happens on other forums (yes I realize this is a mailing list) but I didn't think it would happen here. I guess that I just got schooled. Perhaps I should say a few things. The only reason for me choosing Linux over windows is security and safety. It may be different for computer experts, but that's it for me. So anyway I have Mint on my Toshiba and some months back I clicked to a page with info on Oprah Winfrey. The site then clicked on and off and on and off etc. I closed the page and opened history. Here the site was listed maybe 25 to 50 times. Then say that day or the next, my most used folder disappeared from it's space. I found it in the thrash. And that happened with maybe another couple of folders. Someone said that Mint had had problems with a bug/bugs this year/last year? So anyway I presume that I caught a bug and that it's still there. (Don't worry,the emails I send on this phone and not the Toshiba). This happened inspite of the fact that I use Mozilla, adblock and NoScript, although they may not have been up to date. Computer experts, if their machine gets infected may be able to debug it and be confident that it's clear, but I can't. I figure the best way to protect myself from now on is to have the safest set up from the start. And from a bit of research I did on the net it appears that that maybe Whonix and Qubes. On 2016-06-07 06:53, Paul Wilson wrote: I would be trending to a tent inside a faraday cage, at least 50kms from the nearest populated town. :p Sent from my iPhone On 6/06/2016, at 11:41 PM, Eric Light <eric@ericlight.com <mailto:eric@ericlight.com>> wrote: YES I FIND THIS MUCH LESS ANNOYING, THANKS WILLIAM �� Battiness aside, I suspect the answer to Michelle's problem isn't Whonix on Qubes on an old laptop. It sounds like excessive engineering for no good reason. Did anyone else have similar thoughts? If I were going full-on paranoia mode, I'd be running TAILS, probably with a grsecurity-patched kernel, and probably through an offshore VPN. What do you guys think? E -- Securely sent with Tutanota. It's good, you should try it: https://tutanota.com [2] 6. Jun 2016 23:32 by will@artcontrol.me <mailto:will@artcontrol.me>: IS THIS BETTER? _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz <mailto:wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz> Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug [1] _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz <mailto:wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz> Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug [1] Links: ------ [1] https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug [2] https://tutanota.com _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz <mailto:wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz> Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz <mailto:wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz> Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
Hi Michelle,
First off I would like to apologise if my attempt at injecting a bit of tongue and cheek at the group was offensive, it was certainly not intended to cause offence. It is useful to understand the background to your decision to move to Whonix and Qubes. I must confess as a Fedora user I am not familiar with the Mint distro, as such I can't comment on any possible bugs.
While I agree with Eric in that a Whonix, Qubes solution is possibly a bit of overkill given your intended use. The behaviour you described did sound very similar to common malware/virus behaviour. It would be uncommon but not impossible for something to be in the wild that could cause this on a Linux distro, as you specified being an IT chap I would be likely to do a little digging around to identify the cause.
In order to get a secure/stable system you might also want to consider looking at well tested and used distributions such as Debian or Ubuntu. The LTS releases of these are usually very stable, and can be quickly secured. Then simple good internet safe use practices, such as only visit sites that you have reason to trust. Type in URLs manually and don't follow links to new sights as well as the never open an attachment in an email when you don't expect it, should keep safe. Finally if it means giving you peace of mind, then by all means don't let our opinions discourage you from the Whonix route, part of the appeal of Linux is the adventure of diving into technology and having the freedom to choose what you do and how you do it.
Regards
Paul Wilson
On 7/06/2016, at 3:43 PM, Michelle michelle400@orcon.net.nz wrote:
Well when I looked at the mailing list page today I was totally shocked to find I'd been maligned and attacked. I know that that happens on other forums (yes I realize this is a mailing list) but I didn't think it would happen here. I guess that I just got schooled.
Perhaps I should say a few things. The only reason for me choosing Linux over windows is security and safety. It may be different for computer experts, but that's it for me.
So anyway I have Mint on my Toshiba and some months back I clicked to a page with info on Oprah Winfrey. The site then clicked on and off and on and off etc. I closed the page and opened history. Here the site was listed maybe 25 to 50 times. Then say that day or the next, my most used folder disappeared from it's space. I found it in the thrash. And that happened with maybe another couple of folders. Someone said that Mint had had problems with a bug/bugs this year/last year?
So anyway I presume that I caught a bug and that it's still there. (Don't worry,the emails I send on this phone and not the Toshiba). This happened inspite of the fact that I use Mozilla, adblock and NoScript, although they may not have been up to date. Computer experts, if their machine gets infected may be able to debug it and be confident that it's clear, but I can't. I figure the best way to protect myself from now on is to have the safest set up from the start. And from a bit of research I did on the net it appears that that maybe Whonix and Qubes.
On 2016-06-07 06:53, Paul Wilson wrote: I would be trending to a tent inside a faraday cage, at least 50kms from the nearest populated town. :p Sent from my iPhone
On 6/06/2016, at 11:41 PM, Eric Light eric@ericlight.com wrote: YES I FIND THIS MUCH LESS ANNOYING, THANKS WILLIAM 😉 Battiness aside, I suspect the answer to Michelle's problem isn't Whonix on Qubes on an old laptop. It sounds like excessive engineering for no good reason. Did anyone else have similar thoughts? If I were going full-on paranoia mode, I'd be running TAILS, probably with a grsecurity-patched kernel, and probably through an offshore VPN. What do you guys think? E -- Securely sent with Tutanota. It's good, you should try it: https://tutanota.com [2] 6. Jun 2016 23:32 by will@artcontrol.me:
IS THIS BETTER? _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug [1]
wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug [1]
Links:
[1] https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug [2] https://tutanota.com _______________________________________________ wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
wlug mailing list | wlug@list.waikato.ac.nz Unsubscribe: https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/wlug
participants (7)
-
Encode -
Eric Light -
Ian Young -
Michelle -
Paul Wilson
-
William Mckee -
Wolf