Anybody else observed that bigben gained about 19 years at about 1:25pm
this arvo?
$ date
Tue Jan 1 14:54:33 NZDT 2002
$ /usr/sbin/ntpdate -q truechimer.waikato.ac.nz
server 130.217.76.32, stratum 2, offset -0.001089, delay 0.04276
1 Jan 14:49:38 ntpdate[17537]: adjust time server 130.217.76.32 offset
-0.001089 sec
$ /usr/sbin/ntpdate -q bigben.clix.net.nz
server 203.167.224.60, stratum 1, offset 619315199.998172, delay 0.03613
1 Jan 14:49:55 ntpdate[17540]: step time server 203.167.224.60 offset
619315199.998172 sec
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Ok - Thought it was about time that the list had some more on-topic
posts for the week.
So I want to tackle the issue of the WIX and APE route servers. Any why
some people just don't love them.
First some background (excuse the lameness, but I thought I'd talk to a
wider audience on the list while I was at it). If you want to ignore
this then skip to the bottom where I get to the point (search for *THE
POINT*)
There are two route servers WIX and APE for the purpose of
exchangeing a list of prefix's which are reacable locally via each of
those networks.
Network entities peer with these servers inorder to get local (wix/ape)
nexthop information for prefix's rather than have to default route them
through an upstream provider.
Example:
Company A and Company B both have a presence on Citylink in Wellington.
They both have differernt upstream providers.
Under normal routing conditions, the traffic between these companies
would be routed to their upstream providers and delt with according to
their routing/billing policy. It is possible however for Company A and
Company B to route traffic directly to each other and thus bypass the
upstream. Gaining all the speed and billing advantages along the way.
This works well at the moment and there is no problem with this portion
of the route servers.
The issue comes from ISP's peering to the route servers.
Most of the ISP's who have a presence on citylink also advertise routes
to the route servers. This is great. It means that if I'm using ISP A
for my upstream, I can pass traffic to ISP B's networks across Citylink
.
The majority of these ISP's however are not listening to any
advertisments from the WIX/APE route servers. Which leads to the
following situation.
Company A uses ISP A as an upstream.
Company A is learning prefix's for ISP B through the route server and
will pass packets to them directly to ISP B. ISP B however is not
listening to any advertisments from the route servers, and will pass all
traffic BACK to Company A via ISP A. Thus negating the point of sending
the traffic locally in the first place.
*THE POINT*
SO - I know a few of the reasons why ISP's are not listening to the
routes from the servers, but I want to be able to understand them all.
Some possible problems ("We don't think that they are safe enough") can
be fixed. Other possible concerns ("We don't peer because we don't
think we need to") can not. I want to see if it's worth pursueing this
kind of network design. So I want to see how many problems fall into
each of my catagories above.
So if ISP's can send me the responses to:
"What are the reasons that you are not listening to prefix's via the
wix/ape route servers"
I'd appreciate it (private email ok)
If you are already listening to all the prefix's then keep the list
noise down and stay quiet =) But I know who's not - so don't try and
fool me. =)
Here are some possible concerns/solutions that I prepared earlier.
Might make your response easier
C: "People are morons. There is no way that I'm letting little people
like Company A inject BGP routes into my network. GOD it took me long
enought to understand BGP I'm not trusting some snotty nosed small
company administrator"
S: Ok - first of all get back on the medication.
Secondly - Simon Blake (the route server admin) assures me that he
has been running full import and export filters on all peering sessions
for the last 18 months. So there is no way that the small networks we
are talking about can advertise anything that they have not cleared with
Simon first. So in a sense you are not trusting every small company
admin - you are trusting Simon. So make your judgement on that.
C: "Piss off - I'm not providing domestic transit to other peoples
customers. Are you mental"
S: Well not last time I checked - but I have had a mountain bike
accident since then.
I'm not asking you to provide domestic transit for free. Just
advertise the routes that you are happy to accept traffic for.
for example - maybe you only advertise Wellington routes at WIX and
Auckland routes at APE. You all have networks where you can tell the
difference right? =)
C: "I don't peer with anyone smaller than myself"
S: Thats sad. I'm getting a network version of A Christmas Coral
flashbacks =)
Sure if thats your company policy then I'm not about to pass judgement
on it. But if it were me - I'd want to get traffic out of my network as
quick as possible. And passing it to a companies upstream is not always
the best (read cheapest) way of doing that. Nuff said.
C: "Peering is hard. Everytime you peer you add another level of
complexity to the network"
S: Sure. This is why Simon is also looking at automating the process
using some route registry tools. If this is one of your concerns then
make it known, but also keep in mind that it's in the pipes. And
remember you only have one peer (the server) not all the different
companies. Simon has already done one level of scrubbing for you. Pity
him his job =)
OK
So mail me (private if you dont' want to do it to the list) your reasons
for not loving the route servers. Even if all you have to say is
"Didn't know about them"
or
"Far too busy" (don't lie though)
Thanks
Dean
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Hi all,
If you didn't notice aim.net.nz just added all ISP's to their own little New
Zealand ISP Mailing list.(I guess to spam about the new ".kiwi" domain name
(alternative DNS system)
(http://aim.net.nz/pipermail/nzisps_aim.net.nz/2002-May/000000.html).
I suggest if you are on this spam list, to remove yourself with the password
they just emailed all the email addresses. (sales@ and help@ all the ISP's
in NZ) (See http://aim.net.nz/mailman/roster/nzisps_aim.net.nz )
Thanks
Craig Whitmore
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At 19:23 31/05/02 +1200, you wrote:
>FYI Someone was trying to ring the APE cabinet at wround 12:30pm today
>Hope it wasn't urgent 8)
See we go the other way.. our phone in there doesnt have a working ringer..
just a light that flashes...
... Last time I was up there I was working with Mark and he said 'i'll ring
you on the phone up there'.
Course I Didnt know it wouldnt ring. I got distracted, happened to glance
at it and see the light flashing. I still don't know how long he'd been
letting it ring for... =P
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I hope this is a joke. Nice to see where our money goes.
http://www.theinquirer.net/29050203.htm
PS: I sent this to the other list but it seems to be down.
--
Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz
Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz
ihug, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz
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I'm in the tower right now, and the APE cabinet was just ringing.
Was someone trying to contact it? (Via phone)?
---
Matt Camp
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Not to mention the support and the channel the product takes to reach the
customer. Upgrades and development of firmware costs money!.
Go buy an RG-1000 and open it up . 486-sec, Lucent Winmodem, RealTek
Ethernet chipset. 8mb Flash memory.
Infact we installed BSD on one the other day and have it running a Linux
router. We can even take the 11mb Silver card our and run a Cisco in it :) .
Development costs money , Support costs money .
Best Regards
Matthew G Brown
B & R Holdings LTD
DDI: 027 4807731
Email: Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz
" Online Data Security & Wireless Internet Wholesale "
http://www.backupserver.co.nzhttp://www.brh.co.nz
IMPORTANT NOTICE:
This e-mail is confidential, and is for the intended recipient only.
Access, disclosure, copying, distribution or reliance on any of it, or by
anyone else is prohibited. Please delete this email if obtained in error and
e-mail confirmation to the sender.
> You're presumably paying for what the box can do, not a simple summation
> of the cost of its components. If what the box can do does not justify
> the price, don't buy it. This is not rocket science.
>
>
> Joe
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz
> where the body of your message reads:
> unsubscribe nznog
>
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Anyone get this one this morning?
Our helpdesk got a copy.
General FYI otherwise.
(I seem to recall this, or similar, was discussed here some time back.)
Mark.
>----------Forwarded message ----------
>
>From: "Dominic O'Hare" <dominic.ohare(a)aimhosting.co.nz>
>To: <nzisps(a)aim.net.nz>
>
>
>
>To the director of the Internet Service Provider,=20
>
>=20
>
>Australasian Internet Marketing In association with Technologies =
>Integrated will next month release a new and exciting venture for all =
>Kiwis'. The venture is a new innovative namespace for new top-level =
>domain names specific to New Zealand surpassing ICANN (The Internet =
>Corporation of Assigned Names & Numbers).
>
>=20
>
>The scheme will work much the same as multi-lingual domain names are =
>based; the name typed into the browser which then cloaks the real URL =
>via you the isp or a plug-in downloaded from our website. The procedure =
>is seamless unlike stealth forwarding, which is a frame-based process =
>and is limited to cloaking normal web addresses eg. CJB.NET. The outcome =
>is, when you type in a url with one of our new domain suffixes in the =
>status bar content will load from the url you typed in.=20
>
>Example, A user types in - http://www.yourname.kiwi=20
>
>A graphic on the page loads, and shows up in the status bar as loading =
>from - http://www.yourname.kiwi/welcome.jpg
>
>=20
>
>This is exactly the same, as any normal TLD or ccTLD would load up in =
>any browser.
>
>=20
>
>This scheme has been tried, tested and successful in the United States =
>by a company selling new domain names such as ".art" and ".church" named =
>New.net, The company has made partnerships with large international ISPs =
>like Tiscali (Europe) and Netzero (USA) to enable the domain names to =
>users of the ISPs. The company has also made deals with large =
>distribution software like Kazza to instantly install the companies =
>plug-in to enable the new domain names if the users ISP have not enabled =
>New.net domain names. New.net domain names now have a growing audience =
>to their domain names of over 150 million people worldwide.
>
>
>
>New.net has a somewhat different plan of action than us, although they =
>clearly show that the creation of new and non-ICANN domain names is =
>easily possible and worthwhile.=20
>
>=20
>
>We are currently looking for partners in this venture, our site and =
>network will go live on the 1st of June. If you are interested in =
>partnership with us or would like more information, you may contact us =
>by email at xtldsproject(a)aim.net.nz.=20
>
>Kindest Regards,
>
>Dominic O'Hare
>
>=20
>
>Managing Director=20
>
>Australasian Internet Marketing (NZ) Limited.
>
>To the director of the Internet Service Provider,
>
> <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
>
>Australasian Internet Marketing In association with Technologies
>Integrated will next month release a new and exciting venture for all
>Kiwis. The venture is a new innovative namespace for new top-level domain
>names specific to New Zealand surpassing ICANN (The Internet Corporation
>of Assigned Names & Numbers).
>
>
>
>The scheme will work much the same as multi-lingual domain names are
>based; the name typed into the browser which then cloaks the real URL via
>you the isp or a plug-in downloaded from our website. The procedure is
>seamless unlike stealth forwarding, which is a frame-based process and is
>limited to cloaking normal web addresses eg. CJB.NET. The outcome is, when
>you type in a url with one of our new domain suffixes in the status bar
>content will load from the url you typed in.
>
>Example, A user types in http://www.yourname.kiwi
>
>A graphic on the page loads, and shows up in the status bar as loading
>from http://www.yourname.kiwi/welcome.jpg
>
>
>
>This is exactly the same, as any normal TLD or ccTLD would load up in any
>browser.
>
>
>
>This scheme has been tried, tested and successful in the United States by
>a company selling new domain names such as .art and .church named
>New.net, The company has made partnerships with large international ISPs
>like Tiscali (Europe) and Netzero (USA) to enable the domain names to
>users of the ISPs. The company has also made deals with large distribution
>software like Kazza to instantly install the companies plug-in to enable
>the new domain names if the users ISP have not enabled New.net domain
>names. New.net domain names now have a growing audience to their domain
>names of over 150 million people worldwide.
>
>New.net has a somewhat different plan of action than us, although they
>clearly show that the creation of new and non-ICANN domain names is easily
>possible and worthwhile.
>
>
>
>We are currently looking for partners in this venture, our site and
>network will go live on the 1st of June. If you are interested in
>partnership with us or would like more information, you may contact us by
>email at <mailto:xtldsproject@aim.net.nz>xtldsproject(a)aim.net.nz.
>
>Kindest Regards,
>
>Dominic OHare
>
>
>
>Managing Director
>
>Australasian Internet Marketing (NZ) Limited.
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Here's something that popped up on the Exim users list. Apparently,
there's a new blocking list that charges US$25 to remove entries from its
database:
http://www.mailabusedatabase.com/
Thought it might be of minor interest to NZNOG...
--
Juha Saarinen
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