Initially those transit providers and ISPs that do offer IPv6 transit
will be able to charge for this service as it will be a premium value
add. However I can't see this business model being able to last for
more than 6 years (through to 2012), and possibly only three years.
After this point in time I expect IPv6 deployment will be standard, and
will no longer be a premium service offering - it will be the standard
offering, like IPv4 is today. Once IPv4 has become exhausted and you
can't actually give a customer an IPv4 address then you definitely wont
be able to charge more for IPv6 - otherwise the customer will walk.
So do providers start implementing slowly now, and recoup some of their
investment while they can, or wait till they are forced to do the
upgrades and are not able to recoup any of their "new" investment.
The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
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information, including the Call For Presentations. Offers to present are
due in by 22nd October, and all presenters
should have had their acceptance confirmed by 31st October.
Also see http://auckland.thursdaynightcurry.com/ if you live in or near
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See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details
for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other
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Technical Specialist |The Doctor: No, but I'm full of
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Integration & Services Division +-----------------------
Alcatel NZ Ltd - Telecom's network operations manager
"This communication, including any attachments, is confidential.
If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read
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I attended a very interesting presentation today by Tony Bain, one of
the key IETF IPv6 chairs. He says that the rate of /8's being allocated
is increasing exponentially at that moment (22 were allocated in 18
months [till July 2005], leaving just 64 available worldwide), and the
prior estimate of when IPv4 address was going to be exhausted of 2020
has been revised to 2009 - as in three years away, and that IPv4 address
space is likely to take on a much more commercially tradable value as it
becomes very rare (like oil).
For existing players in the market this doesn't mean much. However for
expanding networks this is going to put a serious crimp in their plans.
I polled a lot of players in the NZ market about 6 months ago and plans
for IPv6 deployment were almost non-existent.
There is an older article he wrote here:
We really need large commercial transit players like Global Gateway,
TelstraClear, AT&T, UUNet, AsiaNetCom, and Sprint to start offering dual
stack IPv6 connections to downstream ISPs, and for ISPs to start
allowing clients to connection via IPv6, including via DSL.
We really need to get critical infrastructure, like DNS, fully IPv6
enabled. The .nz domain isn't even reachable via IPv6 addresses yet. Now
I know the shared registry system has IPv6 support now, but it is
limiting in that you must still supply IPv4 addresses. You can't supply
only IPv6 glue records. What happens when you can't get IPv4 addresses
to use for glue?
Also the majority of the registries out their offer very poor IPv6
support - as in no IPv6 connected DNS servers, and an inability to
easily add IPv6 AAAA records.
After a few recent instances I am getting sick of companies who transfer
their DNS/Servers from one provider to another and then wonder why the old
data is still cached by 3rd parties for 24 hours (or whatever).
How do people feel about a "best practice" document on this that we could
encourage people to follow ( perhaps the DNC could publish) for people
moving their domain between providers. Just the basics like, dropping the
TTLs, getting all the servers data in the right order etc?
Similar to this:
Simon J. Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/
"To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.
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> List moderator, is it possible to remove this list from the archives?
I think we've been through this before, and the answer is no.
There is all sorts of things in the archives that people would like to
have removed. The answer has always been no. Infact way back in time
there was a HUGE argument about it. Where people offered to just make
alternative, REAL versions of the archives with the removed posts. It
got really nasty.
Dean (In his ad-hoc role as NZNOG historian)
I'm afraid my question may have breached a confidentiality agreement and we
are getting angry phone calls from our supplier, so please disregard my
email earlier today and delete any references to it from your inbox if that
List moderator, is it possible to remove this list from the archives?
> From: Jonathan Brewer [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
> Sent: Thursday, 30 November 2006 9:42 a.m.
> To: 'nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz'
> Subject: Electricity Reforms Act and Diesel Generators
> Hi Folks,
> We telehouse at a number of facilities throughout New Zealand. We
> typically provide our own batteries and contract for use of an on-site
> diesel generator. At most sites we are not able to put in our own
> We were recently informed by Kordia (BCL) that they can no longer allow us
> to use standby generator power at their sites due to the Electricity
> Reforms Act.
> "BCL is deemed to be a Line Company under the Electricity Reforms Act and
> therefore is unable to also be classified as a Generator. On that basis,
> BCL is no longer able to provide you with Standby Generator Power for
> upgrades to existing or new services."
> This effectively bars us from providing carrier grade telecommunications
> services from BCL sites.
> One might say "use different sites" or "build your own towers", but these
> are not options as these towers were built by the government before the
> times of the Resource Management Act in unique locations where new towers
> cannot be built.
> Can they do this? Are they doing this to everyone, or just us?
> Jonathan Brewer
: The past 10+ years of work on IPv6 nee IPng have taught
: many lessons about what will and will not work (and more
: importantly what will be accepted or not).
Exactly. I NEED to multihome. I won't accept not being able to do that. No provider is going to be good enough that I trust ALL of my connectivity with them and no one else. That settles it right there. A protocol should not dictate my business practice.
: ps - the 100-million number likely came from Alain Durand's
: presentation "Managing 100+ Million IP Addresses"
WRT "Managing 100+ Million IP Addresses", I see the following chart. (apologies for the formatting. It's on page 6 at www.nanog.org/mtg-0606/pdf/alain-durand.pdf
Triple Play Effect on the Use of IP Addresses
HSD only Triple Play
Cable Modem 1(private only) 1
Home Computer/Router 1 1
eMTA (Voice adaptor) 0 1 – 2
Set Top Box (STB) 0 2
Total number of IP
addresses(assume 2.5 1 – 2 8 – 9
STB per household)
What STB needs 2 IPs per box? The way we're doing it is one private IP per STB and one STB per television set, so that's 2-3 private IPs per household. One public IP per customer for Internet and we're not going for VoIP until later. Perhaps they have one STB per household no matter the number of television sets? Also, I see they have 20-30 ASNs. Are all 20M customers going to be in one AS? I wouldn't expect that.
Finally, with VPRNs addresses could be reused. Just put the customers in different VPRNs and duplicate the address scheme. It's 'divide and conquer' methodology. I'm a noobie to VPRNs, so flame me if this isn't feasible. I have doused my flameproof underpants with beer, so I'm protected... :-)
--- jejs+lists(a)sahala.org wrote:
From: "joshua sahala" <jejs+lists(a)sahala.org>
Subject: [nznog] THE SKY IS FALLING ( was Re: IPv4 Exhaustion)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:42:35 +1300 (NZDT)
I find it slightly ironic that those screaming the loudest for IPv6 seem
to have the most poorly researched assertions regarding the death of IPv4.
(I am of course ignoring the obvious stupidity of things like IPv8/9/16)
Who are the loudest proponents of IPv6? I tend to agree with the
evaluation presented in Todd Underwood's blog: vendors, consultants, and
the protocol designers themselves...
If IPv6 is the answer, what was the question again?
Perhaps it is time to accept that IPv6 is the wrong answer (or we need to
start asking better questions), take the lessons learned from its failure,
and start again. The past 10+ years of work on IPv6 nee IPng have taught
many lessons about what will and will not work (and more importantly what
will be accepted or not).
There are many fundamental problems with the protocol that no amount of
marketecture or hand-waving will fix; the least of which is a lack of
end-users calling for a v6 address for their toaster/television/mechanical
These issue must be addressed, either in IPv6 (not likely), or in IPng-NG :)
ps - the 100-million number likely came from Alain Durand's presentation
"Managing 100+ Million IP Addresses"
(it says ~20-million customers + kit == 100-million)
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- Douglas Adams -
NZNOG mailing list
We telehouse at a number of facilities throughout New Zealand. We typically
provide our own batteries and contract for use of an on-site diesel
generator. At most sites we are not able to put in our own generator.
We were recently informed by Kordia (BCL) that they can no longer allow us
to use standby generator power at their sites due to the Electricity Reforms
"BCL is deemed to be a Line Company under the Electricity Reforms Act and
therefore is unable to also be classified as a Generator. On that basis, BCL
is no longer able to provide you with Standby Generator Power for upgrades
to existing or new services."
This effectively bars us from providing carrier grade telecommunications
services from BCL sites.
One might say "use different sites" or "build your own towers", but these
are not options as these towers were built by the government before the
times of the Resource Management Act in unique locations where new towers
cannot be built.
Can they do this? Are they doing this to everyone, or just us?
On 30/11/2006 11:36 a.m., Andy Linton wrote:
> For us having this address space from APNIC pushes us into the next tier of
> membership and costs us an additional US$2500 a year. We have had a very
> serious discussion here about returning this to APNIC and getting a reduction
> in our charges.
We recently got our first allocation from APNIC, and I was surprised
that we had to choose 4 or 6 and had to pay more for both - as Andy
says, are we being encouraged to do this or not? We are still small, so
the additional cost is prohibitive. I would have thought there would be
an associated IP6 allocation with every IP4 allocation, but I guess I