Initially those transit providers and ISPs that do offer IPv6 transit
will be able to charge for this service as it will be a premium value
add. However I can't see this business model being able to last for
more than 6 years (through to 2012), and possibly only three years.
After this point in time I expect IPv6 deployment will be standard, and
will no longer be a premium service offering - it will be the standard
offering, like IPv4 is today. Once IPv4 has become exhausted and you
can't actually give a customer an IPv4 address then you definitely wont
be able to charge more for IPv6 - otherwise the customer will walk.
So do providers start implementing slowly now, and recoup some of their
investment while they can, or wait till they are forced to do the
upgrades and are not able to recoup any of their "new" investment.
The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king,
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on February 2nd to 4th, 2005. See http://www.nznog.org/ for more
information, including the Call For Presentations. Offers to present are
due in by 22nd October, and all presenters
should have had their acceptance confirmed by 31st October.
Also see http://auckland.thursdaynightcurry.com/ if you live in or near
Auckland or Wellington.
Operators' Contact List
See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details
for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other
network operators, not by most customers.
See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering
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The idea was floated at last weeks Curry in Auckland about hiring a bus
to travel to NZNOG, as there would possibly be quite a number of people
between Auckland and Palmerston North interested in a less stressful and
cheaper means of getting there.
I have no idea of what numbers would be required at this stage or what
the cost would be. Obviously it would be cheaper than flying, but take
longer to get there.
The other alternative might be to group-book the train, which has
tables, not sure about AC power, you can walk around, is apparently
newly-refurbished, but probably takes a little longer than a bus, and
possibly more expensive.
Is anyone is interested?
Contacting me off-list would be best.
Joel van Velden
Steve Wray wrote:
> Redundancy isn't really what I mean; more
So if a TelstraClear engineer thought about it really hard
the truck would have missed the fibre? Personally, I don't
think the power of prayer is a valid network protection
scheme. Though when I used to work there, it was useful on
> From what I've heard out of Telstra people -- and
> thats just the faults and 'helpdesk' people, the
> attitude seems to be that a 'truck hitting a
> pole' is not something that could have been
> foreseen and that therefore there was no point in
> having a contingency plan to deal with it.
> To me, this just seems wrong-headed.
> My question for Telstra is, was there a plan? How
> well did it work out?
> If they didn't have a plan or if it didn't work out
> well, how are they going to address this in future?
> And the answers I've been getting back from Telstra
> people are rather disconcerting.
A quick talk about how things are done in a Telco may be in
1. You need money to do everything. This includes laying
fibre, writing plans and taking a toilet break.
2. There are two types of money to be spent - OPEX and CAPEX
(OPerational expenditure and CAPital expenditure).
3. OPEX is evil. Accountants see it as a black hole that
money is thrown down. It is not an investment. It is paying
some guy for something you already own. OPEX is constantly
cut. Many things that should be done as OPEX are classed as
CAPEX by squinting your eyes and with the aid of smoke and
4. CAPEX is ok - it is investing money in something with the
expectation of a return at some point in time. Dig a hole,
lay a cable, charge people to use it, eventually they've
paid you more than it cost you to lay - this is CAPEX. You
need a business case to spend CAPEX. This will consist of
all likely and unlikely costs and revenues; and consequently
a best, worst and expected-case return on investment. If the
company thinks this is the best way to spend it's money it
will do it. If it thinks it can make a larger profit or the
same profit in a shorter time frame elsewhere it will do
This is The Way It Works(tm) for a Telco and most
businesses. If you can write a business case showing that
getting 1000 monks in Tibet to pray for the safety of
TelstrClear's network will turn a profit then they will do
it. If prayer wasn't what you meant by "forward-thinking",
and redundancy wasn't it then I'm at a loss. What else could
they do? Not lay the fibre there? That location was probably
the place that brought the best return on investment to
justify the CAPEX. Could there have been a better place to
put it - probably. Do companies have the time to second
guess every decision made? Or will someone else beat you to
the punch if you do that?
Sorry for the massive rant, but berating a company, any
company, for doing their best to fix a fault caused by some
truck driver who was likely high on P at the time just seems
like cynical people trying to complain about nothing to me.
Sure, if you were one of the people affected it must've
really sucked. In the end them's the breaks.
On a lighter note, Merry Christmas to everyone - try to
shake off the cynicism and anger that accumulated through
the year at the beach this summer!
Looks like there's a new email worm/virus epidemic on the go.
We've quarantined over 1100 incoming emails since 2pm, and we normally
only get a trickle.
ClamAV reports "postcard.exe contains Trojan.Downloader-388", and the
subject line is "Happy New Year".
Just what we all need. :-(
(Happy to be running Ubuntu)
(sorry about lack of threading etc, I clipped the text out of the
> David Robinson wrote:
>> "For a start, it takes more than two fibre cuts in the
> North Island to
>> disrupt us"
>> And also remember back early in the year when one slip on the Hutt
>> motorway took out all services in Wellington.
>> What is so wrong with Telstra's network that single events can affect
>> so many people, when supposable it takes more than two fibre cuts to
>> disrupt them?
> This post you've quoted was related to the core network -
> i.e. the bits that connect Wellington to Auckland etc. This
> is a fault in the access network i.e. the bit that connects
> Mary and Bob (or in this case Kandallah) to the core
> network. NO operator has full redundancy in the access
> network for residential services.
What amazes me is that Telstra maintain that a truck hitting a pole was
a *completely* unforseeable event and that even in retrospect they could
not have been expected to have forseen that *one* *day* a truck would
hit a 'single-point-of-failure pole' and that they could not have been
expected to have planned for it.
I ask you, is that really reasonable?
I thought that engineers were the types of folk would look at diagrams
of such a network and say:
"well this pole is a single point of failure and its right by a road.
Sooner or later its going to get hit by something, we'd better plan for
I don't get the feeling that TC *had* planned for it... though maybe
they did and if they hadn't planned for it we'd be disconnected till the
new year... Insights anyone?
Also, is there anywhere which keeps a log of outages experienced by NZ
ISP's, how long they last etc?
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006, David Robb wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006, Simon Allard wrote:
>> You can't expect good uptimes and run your business which requires high
>> availability internet on a $39.95 DSL account.
> Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick any two.
Where Good==Reliable, I assume? Since the relative goodness of broadband
products for most consumers is often associated with their fastness and
cheapness, with reliability (provided one can actually pass packets, of
course) being an unconsidered factor.
I do agree with Dean that we know you can't reasonably expect multiple
nines of reliability from a residential service, but we, as geeks, have
far different expectations from the average consumer.
Plus, with NZ's high incidence of home-based businesses, how many users
have actually had ANY choice of carrier until quite recently? I can
probably get Woosh at home, and we have a Telecom landline. What are my
other choices? TCL is still delivering over TCNZ's cable, so that's a
non-starter. I could maybe get hooked into Vector's fibre, though I don't
think it comes quite far enough down Great South Rd. And I'm in a better
position than a lot of residential users, who can't get Woosh and aren't
even close to someone's fibre network.
When people have no choice, is it any wonder that they expect the earth
for nothing? Nobody's telling them about the limitations of the one
service they can afford, and nobody's offering them anything with better
reliability for a reasonable price - what would one pay for a 2Mbps frame
connection that, while unquestionably giving better upstream performance,
comes in, at best, at half the downstream speed of a DSL connection? Many,
many multiples of $40/month, that's for sure. Total no-brainer.
We can sneer at the great unwashed, but the reality is that the
marketroids aren't offering anything to fill the gaping void between DSL
and frame/ISDN (does anyone even use ISDN for data anymore?).
PS: Why pay metric boatloads for something like frame when Telecom won't
give you credit if their network fails? Nobody got a cent out of them
after the rat and the errant backhoe took out much of the country for
several hours, so what's the point in handing them extra? Pardon the pun.
"Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
Actually, I think it's the other way around.
The reason NZ has 3rd rate broadband, is customers expect the world for
You can't expect good uptimes and run your business which requires high
availability internet on a $39.95 DSL account.
I agree with everything Dean said, and I bet I am not the only one.
From: John @ netTRUST [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: Thursday, 21 December 2006 11:19 a.m.
Subject: Re: [nznog] Telstra's Outage
> Nothing used to piss me off more than the cable customer who used to
> compain (without logging trouble tickets BTW) that thier home business
> was losing money because their cable modem was down....
> You buy a residential service - thats what you get.
This type of arrogance from a NOC is why NZ has 3rd rate broadband.
ADSL and cable are widely marketed to businesses and indeed business
connections usually makes up the lions share of revenuw generated by
Let's hopen they keep you, and others with the same opinion, in the back
as far from customers as possible -or- put another way you should be
your l33t skills to substantally improve the reliability rather then
too much time on your hands digging for excuses.
NZNOG mailing list
With Telstra's outage taking out the Northern and Western suburbs of
Wellington. For what I gather it was a single truck crash bringing
down the overhead wires. A single truck crash is a single point of
failure, but I remember this email
"For a start, it takes more than two fibre cuts in the North Island to
And also remember back early in the year when one slip on the Hutt
motorway took out all services in Wellington.
What is so wrong with Telstra's network that single events can affect
so many people, when supposable it takes more than two fibre cuts to