April 2006 - NZNOG - University of Waikato Mail Lists

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group

by Donald Neal

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The New Zealand Network Operators' Group (NZNOG) has no king, president or formal membership. At present it consists of the subscribers to this mailing list, which anyone is free to join. Meetings Our next annual conference is to be hosted by the WAND group in Hamilton on February 2nd to 4th, 2005. See http://www.nznog.org/ for more information, including the Call For Presentations. Offers to present are due in by 22nd October, and all presenters should have had their acceptance confirmed by 31st October. Also see http://auckland.thursdaynightcurry.com/ if you live in or near Auckland or Wellington. Operators' Contact List See http://www.usenet.net.nz/noc/ for operational contact details for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other network operators, not by most customers. Internet Exchanges See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering Exchange and those connected there. See http://www.wix.net.nz/ for the Wellington Internet Exchange. About This Mailing List This list has slightly over 700 addresses subscribed. You may only post to the list from a subscribed address. A number of people subscribe addresses which do not receive email purely to allow posting from them. You may choose to receive postings as they come in, or just to receive daily "digests". See the bottom of the page http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog/ to change the form in which you receive postings. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by employees of Alcatel NZ Ltd, Citylink and Telecom. None of these organisations, nor any administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/pipermail/nznog/ Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrators remain happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. One way to search the archive is to use google and prefix your search with site:list.waikato.ac.nz . Subscribing to the List See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog to subscribe. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins Donald Neal |Palmersdale: Are you in charge here? Technical Specialist |The Doctor: No, but I'm full of Operations Engineering | ideas. Integration & Services Division +----------------------- Alcatel NZ Ltd - Telecom's network operations manager ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

13 years, 3 months

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Steaming Event

by Webmaster

Operators may be interested to know that Radio NZ is running a large streaming event this Saturday 6 May. Music 101 (www.radionz.co.nz/music101) will be broadcast live from Bar Bodega in Wellington, and we'll be providing enhanced audio and video for the event as it also includes live music performances. We'll be offering the following Video: 56 K, 128K, 384K, 768K at all our servers (US and local) 2M will only be offered locally (customers whose ISPs do not peer will not havce access to this). And for Audio: 256K stereo (this is not a typo). This is addition to our usual 48 K stream. As is usual for these events the best performance for your customers can be obtained by peering with the servers located at the NZ exchanges. Limited NZ bound capacity will be available from the US server. Radio NZ will peer with anyone who has connectivity where we do - at APE, PNIX or WIX. We do not charge peers for access to our content. regards, Richard Hulse

14 years, 11 months

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Re: [nznog] QSI / "industry" DSL problems caused by3.5mbit upgrades?

by Simon Allard

> With this service limitation I can easily see how Quicksilver could > potentially be affected more than Ihug, Iconz, Xtra and Orcon. I would > guess that the average user profile on Quicksilver would tend towards > higher bandwidth usage whereas the typical Xtra (etc) user would > probably use less bandwidth. > > Unfortunately if this view I have is correct then I don't see an end to > problems unless either the average Quicksilver user profile changes -or- > Telecom changes the PVC limitation. I am curious to know what effect offering free national traffic has on the QSI DSL Network. In my experience offering free anything in this environment Telecom has created causes nothing by problems.

14 years, 11 months

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Re: [nznog] QSI / "industry" DSL problems caused by 3.5mbit upgrades?

by Regan Murphy

>>Just curious if any other ISPs are suffering from supposed "industry wide" >>throughput issues on the Telecom DSL network caused by telecom "upgrading too >>many customers to 3.5mbit without upgrading their network"? Well for me the problem started before any customers were upgraded and the problem has continued well through the upgrade - I now have an automatically upgraded 3.5Mbps connection and speeds are no better/worse. I have been suffering poor performance on QSI for quite some time now. My initial post to the helpdesk via their webpage was submitted on March 14 - I had been having problems for weeks before that though. This is the response I received: "I have spoken to the network staff and they let me know that a 2Mb connection can drop as low as 24Kbps especially at peak times as this is the nature of the UBS service that telecom offers." I was, at that time, on the 2Mbps service and I was having problems even running terminal sessions to my office (which is five hops away on a 10 Mbps connection via APE). Attempting a download resulted in speeds between 7KB/sec and 30KB/sec typically. This was only noticed during peak times - 6pm to 11pm. I tried a download at 5am one morning and it ran almost at full speed. A friend of mine recently changed from Orcon to QSI. He is on an exchange on the other side of AKL from me. On the Thursday (with Orcon) he was sustaining a 220KB/sec download from the linux mirror at citylink. On the Friday when he was changed over to QSI he couldn't get better than 80KB/sec from the same source and he has had speed problems since. He changed about 2-3 weeks ago. I initially assumed that the problems were due to oversubscription cause by the Telecom changes to the DSL (I figured they bought the changes in early) and this is the line I have been given talking to the QSI helpdesk. As changing providers is a painful (and expensive) process I've been reluctant to switch without knowing for sure where the problem lay. -- Regan

14 years, 11 months

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Re: [nznog] QSI / "industry" DSL problems caused by3.5mbit upgrades?

by Regan Murphy

Yes, thanks to Mark for replying. This additional information makes me less likely to attribute the blame to Quicksilver for these problems. > 1) We currently have a project underway to increase our Private > Virtual Circuit (PVC) size from Telecom to manage future forecasted growth. > Telecom > controls the dimension of this PVC and constrains its size to 24kbit/s > per customer. >>Yet at the same time, customers of Ihug, Iconz, Orcon and Xtra are all able to get much higher rates... With this service limitation I can easily see how Quicksilver could potentially be affected more than Ihug, Iconz, Xtra and Orcon. I would guess that the average user profile on Quicksilver would tend towards higher bandwidth usage whereas the typical Xtra (etc) user would probably use less bandwidth. Unfortunately if this view I have is correct then I don't see an end to problems unless either the average Quicksilver user profile changes -or- Telecom changes the PVC limitation. -- Regan

14 years, 11 months

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QSI / "industry" DSL problems caused by 3.5mbit upgrades?

by Matt Camp

Hi all, Just curious if any other ISPs are suffering from supposed "industry wide" throughput issues on the Telecom DSL network caused by telecom "upgrading too many customers to 3.5mbit without upgrading their network"? Those are direct quotes from the Quicksilver Internet helpdesk person I just spoke to. This puzzles me, because in todays age of UBS, etc, I wasn't aware that such congestion could occur and affect everyone. I am especially surprised since I have had some people on ihug and xtra dsl (in one case not far from here, probably on the same exchange) run some tests, and they get 220kB/s, whereas I am currently getting... 7.5kB/s, and it's been that way for 3 days. It also puzzles me since a friend in Wellington on Quicksilver is getting almost exactly the same crappy performance as I'm getting in Auckland... pretty big coincidence that two exchanges so far apart are giving exactly the same performance issues at the same time? It's been a while since I actually dealt with the internals of DSL from the ISP end, especially in the UBS-era, so I'm posting here to see if anyone has any info one way or the other. FYI, Quicksilver have recommended that I contact Telecom to complain, or maybe write them a letter. They also refuse to update their network status page (despite admitting that virtually all their dsl users are affected, and many are complaining) because it would "be detrimental, as it's not Quicksilvers problem". Does this actually sound real, or am I being just fobbed off by the helpdesker? Are any of you other ISPs having similar issues, and can anyone point me at any info direct from Telecom about the issue? - Matt Camp

14 years, 11 months

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Re: [nznog] QSI / "industry" DSL problems caused by 3.5mbitupgrades?

by Matt Camp

Indeed, I've now heard from around 8 or 9 Quicksilver users from all over the country, all of whom are getting SERIOUSLY bad speeds anywhere near peak times. I'm talking getting down around 200-300kbit on average, sometimes down as low as 60kbit. But it's not just the throughput... latency is floating from 70ms up to around 4400ms... floating WILDLY... enough that it makes SSHing over the dsl connection very difficult. But mainly my point was that Quicksilver are trying to tell their users that it's and industry-wide problem affecting all ISPs, and there is nothing that Quicksilver can do to fix it (apart from sending endless screenshots of their bandwidth tester, which they are apparently forwarding to telecom). The fact that people can get good speeds using an xtra username, and crap using a qsi one on the same line indicates that this is NOT the per-exchange congestion problem seen in some areas (Mt Eden, for example) At this point in time I'd just like someone to admit that perhaps they don't have enough bandwidth, and just give us a realistic eta on when that can be resolved. Trying to pass the blame just pisses more people off. > > >> Remember.. your speed is NOT guaranteed, but if you are buying a 3.5M >> connection >> >> and can NEVER get 3.5M.... > > I think you guys are missing the point in his email. > > [snip] > whereas I am currently getting...7.5kB/s, and it's been that way for 3 > days. > [/snip] > > That sounds like a serious problem rather than a "I never get 3.5M" > problem. > > > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog >

14 years, 11 months

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Re: [nznog] QSI / "industry" DSL problems caused by 3.5mbitupgrades?

by Simon Allard

> Remember.. your speed is NOT guaranteed, but if you are buying a 3.5M > connection > > and can NEVER get 3.5M.... I think you guys are missing the point in his email. [snip] whereas I am currently getting...7.5kB/s, and it's been that way for 3 days. [/snip] That sounds like a serious problem rather than a "I never get 3.5M" problem.

14 years, 11 months

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Re: [nznog] QSI / "industry" DSL problems caused by 3.5mbit upgrades?

by Scott Weeks

----- Original Message Follows ----- From: "Craig Whitmore" <lennon(a)orcon.net.nz> > http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/graphs/). This is about 50000 > recorded tests from Could you let me know what program you used to graph this and how you collected the data? Thanks, scott

14 years, 11 months

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Someone from CallPlus

by Shane Hobson

Please, would someone from CallPlus be able to contact me off list regarding Hamilton City Council ? Regards Shane Hobson 07 838 6725 021 742 634

14 years, 11 months

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NZNOG April 2006