The New Zealand Network Operators' Group
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NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins
Donald Neal |Palmersdale: Are you in charge here?
Technical Specialist |The Doctor: No, but I'm full of
Operations Engineering | ideas.
Integration & Services Division +-----------------------
Alcatel NZ Ltd - Telecom's network operations manager
"This communication, including any attachments, is confidential.
If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read
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Operators may be interested to know that Radio NZ is running a large
streaming event this Saturday 6 May.
Music 101 (www.radionz.co.nz/music101) will be broadcast live from Bar
Bodega in Wellington, and we'll be providing enhanced audio and video
for the event as it also includes live music performances.
We'll be offering the following Video:
56 K, 128K, 384K, 768K at all our servers (US and local)
2M will only be offered locally (customers whose ISPs do not peer will
not havce access to this).
And for Audio:
256K stereo (this is not a typo).
This is addition to our usual 48 K stream.
As is usual for these events the best performance for your customers can
be obtained by peering with the servers located at the NZ exchanges.
Limited NZ bound capacity will be available from the US server.
Radio NZ will peer with anyone who has connectivity where we do - at
APE, PNIX or WIX. We do not charge peers for access to our content.
> With this service limitation I can easily see how Quicksilver could
> potentially be affected more than Ihug, Iconz, Xtra and Orcon. I
> guess that the average user profile on Quicksilver would tend towards
> higher bandwidth usage whereas the typical Xtra (etc) user would
> probably use less bandwidth.
> Unfortunately if this view I have is correct then I don't see an end
> problems unless either the average Quicksilver user profile changes
> Telecom changes the PVC limitation.
I am curious to know what effect offering free national traffic has on
the QSI DSL Network.
In my experience offering free anything in this environment Telecom has
created causes nothing by problems.
>>Just curious if any other ISPs are suffering from supposed "industry
>>throughput issues on the Telecom DSL network caused by telecom
>>many customers to 3.5mbit without upgrading their network"?
Well for me the problem started before any customers were upgraded and
the problem has continued well through the upgrade - I now have an
automatically upgraded 3.5Mbps connection and speeds are no
I have been suffering poor performance on QSI for quite some time now.
My initial post to the helpdesk via their webpage was submitted on March
14 - I had been having problems for weeks before that though.
This is the response I received: "I have spoken to the network staff and
they let me know that a 2Mb connection can drop as low as 24Kbps
especially at peak times as this is the nature of the UBS service that
I was, at that time, on the 2Mbps service and I was having problems even
running terminal sessions to my office (which is five hops away on a 10
Mbps connection via APE). Attempting a download resulted in speeds
between 7KB/sec and 30KB/sec typically. This was only noticed during
peak times - 6pm to 11pm. I tried a download at 5am one morning and it
ran almost at full speed.
A friend of mine recently changed from Orcon to QSI. He is on an
exchange on the other side of AKL from me. On the Thursday (with Orcon)
he was sustaining a 220KB/sec download from the linux mirror at
citylink. On the Friday when he was changed over to QSI he couldn't get
better than 80KB/sec from the same source and he has had speed problems
since. He changed about 2-3 weeks ago.
I initially assumed that the problems were due to oversubscription cause
by the Telecom changes to the DSL (I figured they bought the changes in
early) and this is the line I have been given talking to the QSI
helpdesk. As changing providers is a painful (and expensive) process
I've been reluctant to switch without knowing for sure where the problem
Yes, thanks to Mark for replying. This additional information makes me
less likely to attribute the blame to Quicksilver for these problems.
> 1) We currently have a project underway to increase our Private
> Virtual Circuit (PVC) size from Telecom to manage future forecasted
> controls the dimension of this PVC and constrains its size to 24kbit/s
> per customer.
>>Yet at the same time, customers of Ihug, Iconz, Orcon and Xtra are all
able to get much higher rates...
With this service limitation I can easily see how Quicksilver could
potentially be affected more than Ihug, Iconz, Xtra and Orcon. I would
guess that the average user profile on Quicksilver would tend towards
higher bandwidth usage whereas the typical Xtra (etc) user would
probably use less bandwidth.
Unfortunately if this view I have is correct then I don't see an end to
problems unless either the average Quicksilver user profile changes -or-
Telecom changes the PVC limitation.
Just curious if any other ISPs are suffering from supposed "industry wide"
throughput issues on the Telecom DSL network caused by telecom "upgrading
too many customers to 3.5mbit without upgrading their network"?
Those are direct quotes from the Quicksilver Internet helpdesk person I
just spoke to.
This puzzles me, because in todays age of UBS, etc, I wasn't aware that
such congestion could occur and affect everyone.
I am especially surprised since I have had some people on ihug and xtra
dsl (in one case not far from here, probably on the same exchange) run
some tests, and they get 220kB/s, whereas I am currently getting...
7.5kB/s, and it's been that way for 3 days.
It also puzzles me since a friend in Wellington on Quicksilver is getting
almost exactly the same crappy performance as I'm getting in Auckland...
pretty big coincidence that two exchanges so far apart are giving exactly
the same performance issues at the same time?
It's been a while since I actually dealt with the internals of DSL from
the ISP end, especially in the UBS-era, so I'm posting here to see if
anyone has any info one way or the other.
FYI, Quicksilver have recommended that I contact Telecom to complain, or
maybe write them a letter. They also refuse to update their network status
page (despite admitting that virtually all their dsl users are affected,
and many are complaining) because it would "be detrimental, as it's not
Does this actually sound real, or am I being just fobbed off by the
helpdesker? Are any of you other ISPs having similar issues, and can
anyone point me at any info direct from Telecom about the issue?
- Matt Camp
I've now heard from around 8 or 9 Quicksilver users from all over the
country, all of whom are getting SERIOUSLY bad speeds anywhere near peak
I'm talking getting down around 200-300kbit on average, sometimes down as
low as 60kbit. But it's not just the throughput... latency is floating
from 70ms up to around 4400ms... floating WILDLY... enough that it makes
SSHing over the dsl connection very difficult.
But mainly my point was that Quicksilver are trying to tell their users
that it's and industry-wide problem affecting all ISPs, and there is
nothing that Quicksilver can do to fix it (apart from sending endless
screenshots of their bandwidth tester, which they are apparently
forwarding to telecom). The fact that people can get good speeds using an
xtra username, and crap using a qsi one on the same line indicates that
this is NOT the per-exchange congestion problem seen in some areas (Mt
Eden, for example)
At this point in time I'd just like someone to admit that perhaps they
don't have enough bandwidth, and just give us a realistic eta on when that
can be resolved.
Trying to pass the blame just pisses more people off.
>> Remember.. your speed is NOT guaranteed, but if you are buying a 3.5M
>> and can NEVER get 3.5M....
> I think you guys are missing the point in his email.
> whereas I am currently getting...7.5kB/s, and it's been that way for 3
> That sounds like a serious problem rather than a "I never get 3.5M"
> NZNOG mailing list
> Remember.. your speed is NOT guaranteed, but if you are buying a 3.5M
> and can NEVER get 3.5M....
I think you guys are missing the point in his email.
whereas I am currently getting...7.5kB/s, and it's been that way for 3
That sounds like a serious problem rather than a "I never get 3.5M"
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Craig Whitmore" <lennon(a)orcon.net.nz>
> http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/graphs/). This is about 50000
> recorded tests from
Could you let me know what program you used to graph this
and how you collected the data?