On 25/01/2015 8:52 AM, "Brian E Carpenter" <brian.e.carpenter(a)gmail.com>
On 25/01/2015 08:11, Peter Lambrechtsen wrote:
> My personal view is I personally doubt there will be much movement for
next 5+ years
or even more unless the "killer v6" app comes out or
something major happens like Facebook only supporting v6 from a certain
date. There are fairly simple reasons why.
There is no IPv6 killer app, why would there be? The question is when
will operational convenience argue for v6. The large wireless carriers
in the US are beginning to see that now, and eventually when that
becomes standard practice (with IPv4 traffic treated as legacy carried
over IPv6 infrastructure) the economics will shift here too, simply
because products evolve in that direction.
> Most ISPs have plenty of spare address space and the retail fixed
Even the new players like bigpipe and myrepublic have managed to get v4
address space. And those two didn't launch with a dual stack. Why was
It's been shown that even the new players can survive with CGNat in the
days of Section 92 without needing to log everything I presume.
In the mobile space I can see it happening. But at the same time CGNat
seems to be working for them too.
That isn't what I hear from the seriously large carriers elsewhere
in the world.
I am specifically talking about NZ as that is where the complaints are on
the uptake of v6 by fixed broadband retail proviers. Where the scarcity of
v4 doesn't apply as we have a small already saturated fixed Internet market.
I can see it happening soon in NZ in the mobile space due to the rapid
expansion of mobile devices and that all new devices are v6 compliant. Not
so much in fixed broadband.
Adding v6 you now need to think about how big the
prefix you want to
allocate to your customers. Probably a /64 will be fine for 98% of your
customers but some geeks may want something larger for various reasons.
That's a very short-sighted approach. Firstly, there's no shortage.
Secondly, recommendations and industry practice are all in the /48
to /56 range. Thirdly, the day that multi-router home networks appear,
which is unpredictable but not so far ahead, a /64 isn't enough.
I think it will need to wash out for a few years yet. But my bet would be
sub 1% of customers would need more than a /64.
Just went through a process of moving from sticky ip to truely dynamic ip
for our customers. After months of migrations less than 0.01% of our
customers noticed the change. And that was with 95%+ recovering in 15 mins.
So considered the number of people who care about a static vs those who
care about v6.....
> Now that every device is addressable and no NAT involved it's a non
> conversation about securing the customers network
and / or making sure
have a capable
firewall to only allow acknowledged connections.
Correct. A next-gen SOHO gateway will have to do that. Since NZ buys these
boxes in, it's going to happen here as soon as it happens in the major
> Companies like SNAP have now gone and switched off their v6 stack from
issues. So we should really ask them why they turned it off. As
that would really point to why the uptake has been so low.
Well, it would help if their helpdesk was willing to talk in anything but
baby talk about the issues. What I've been seeing is problems with any
site accessed via Cloudflare (Sydney), and it looks like MTU or MSS size
problems and possibly dropped ICMPv6 packets. I suspect there's a tunnel
in there somewhere and probably a firewall misconfigured for ICMPv6
filtering, but it's hard to tell. There were also IPv6 serious problems
with Google for a few days recently, not specific to SNAP. If they gave
out a bit more information, it might make diagnosis and fix a bit easier.
I would be asking hard questions of my isp.. as the 2nd hand story I heard
was rather interesting.
Anyone from snap care to comment?
> For the vast majority of broadband customers they just want to plug the
> modem in and it work. How is v6 going to have any impact on what they
Hopefully, none. My wife didn't even know she was using IPv6 until
the recent batch of problems with the SNAP service.
And the reverse argument it true as well I suspect she didn't notice when
she went back to a pure v4 stack.
So my real
question is. Where is the demand to uplift the whole
provisioning, support and billing to support v6 where there isn't the
demand in this country where wages on average and technology demands are
I could ask the same about UFB. All I can say is: get ready, so that when
the economics shift towards IPv6 as the primary service and IPv4 as the
legacy service, you don't get caught napping. That shift will come
from outside NZ.
I agree here with ufb. The same /similar reason applies to the slow uptake.
But when core infrastructure proviers or companies like Facebook warn about
going pure v6... then the shift will occur.
If DNS requests by volume are anything to judge by... I think the demands
from customers to move to v6 here will be a slow one.
The move internationally by large isps is primarily driven from lack of v4
to hand out to their customers. That problem doesn't exist here. Unless we
suddenly had a population growth of 1+mil. It's not going to be a problem
> On 25/01/2015 1:18 AM, "Sebastian Castro" <sebastian(a)nzrs.net.nz>
>> On 24/01/15 11:54 pm, Jethro Carr wrote:
>>> Thanks for putting this together Lindsay.
>>> Anyone aware of a simular resource listing IPv6 for NZ’s major
>> I found some metrics and materials on
>> they’re a bit dated (2013) and focus more on the volumes, rather than a
>> list of NZ sites with/without IPv6. Ideally something like
for IPv6 would be fantastic :-)
>> As part of NZRS' research efforts, the regular .nz zone scan checks if
>> given domain name has nameservers, mail
servers and web server with an
>> IPv6 address.
>> The attached image shows the status up to October 2014, and we have
>> up to December 2014 when the last scan ran.
>>> Jethro Carr
>>> On 24 January 2015 at 16:35:56, Lindsay Hill (lindsay.k.hill(a)gmail.com
>>>> After last year's IPv6 issues, I was wondering what the status is
>>>> support across NZ ISPs. I couldn't find that data in any one place,
>>>> been pulling it together myself, into a Google Sheet:
>>>> This is primarily focused around residential ISPs, and the status of
>>>> IPv6 support for 'regular' customers. I'm interested in
>>>> * Is IPv6 supported - fully or trial?
>>>> * What prefix lengths are given to customers
>>>> * Are static allocations available?"
>>>> I've got data on 11 ISPs so far, with requests out for another 3.
>>>> covers the majority of end-user
connections in NZ. There are of
>>>> more niche ISPs, and I'm happy to add their info. You can see that
>>>> is generally poor, which is probably why Google says we're only
>>>> IPv6 traffic.
>>>> Comments + Updates welcome. Once I've got a bit more data, this
>>>> probably go into a more permanent home. If we get enough data, we
>>>> break out into residential vs
business vs co-location IPv6 support.
>>>> I am aware of at least a couple of ISPs that are doing IPv6 trials,
>>>> when they go live, it will
significantly shift the overall IPv6
>>>> rate in NZ. But those trials are still mostly internal only, and you
> only get
on them if you know the right people. If the regular public
> get onto those trials, then I think they
should be listed as
> - too many ISPs have made noises about
running trials years ago, but
> got around to actually launching. You know
who you are.
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