for <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz>nz>; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:37:40 +1300
Received: (from deanp@localhost)
by slave.ascend.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id IAA21800;
Thu, 25 Nov 1999 08:36:36 +1100
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 08:36:35 +1100
From: Dean Pemberton <dp(a)lucent.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: FCC Approves Line Sharing 11/18/1999]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i
In-Reply-To: <EDFD920FC713D31186FF0008C7731C0E717310(a)WNANT21.moc.govt.nz>nz>; =
from Frank March on Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 02:22:09PM +1300
X-confirm-reading-to: "Dean Pemberton" <dp(a)lucent.com>
X-files: Trust No One
[I've cut down the distribution list bacause I don't subscribe to isocnz =
crossposting is bad M-kay]
On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 02:22:09PM +1300, Frank March wrote:
I do have some problems with what Josh Bailey has to say. Who is paying =
the Cisco in the pizza parlour? I doubt if it is a
it Californian or Federal. There has been some
interesting stuff put =
Paul Budde recently (see the most recent 'Friday
Fryup' from Russell =
about the impact (or lack) of NZ's
telecommunications competition policy =
has some bearing on the comment about the cost of 64K
circuits in NZ.
(Albeit, these comments are not really accepted in the place that I =
Who's paying for it is not the point that Josh is trying to make.
The point is that it's being done.
Note that 64K circuits have never cost US$30K/m in NZ
... China had, and
still has, some way to do to catch up, frankly.
Catch up to who? I have actually spent time in China both installing and
maintaining their Internet backbone and I can say for sure that it's miles
ahead of the infrastructure in place in NZ.
They have fibre links to places so far-flung and disgusting I wouldn't =
toilet there (although to be fair, neither did they =3D) )
In fact I can think of 3 other Asian countries that I have working
relationships with who have latched onto the `Net' and sped ahead of NZ. =
many years has NZ had at this? I'm no historian but it's more than 15. =
of these other countries have only been at this for 2-3 years and they are
New Zealand can languish back and blame the small population or lack of
government involvement or space aliens from mars. But at the end of the =
it's just whinging. Get on with it.
In commenting on the 'aisle' of Ciscos
observed in Korea: it is perhaps
possible that Telecom NZ has such as facility, I do not know. I am not
aware of a serious lack of overseas data capacity for New Zealand at =
(I would be very interested to know if there is in
fact such a lack of
capacity). The future seems reasonably secure with the prospect of the
Southern Cross cable opening next year (increasing present overseas data
carrying capacity by a factor of 100, I believe).
For what NZ'ers use it for sure. Why do you think other countries are
installing OC-48 links everywhere? It's not just because they have more =
In many cases it is because they have a different model to work from.
In NZ you are encouraged to use the net with one hand and slapped on the =
with the other. It's frowned upon.
``You used over your free quota''
``You are a high bandwidth user''=20
``You downloaded too much''
``Ohhh That high speed link is very expensive'' etc
This sort of attitude stunts growth. =20
I have seen startup companies overseas doing things that would be =
with the telecommunications infrastructure in NZ, just because of this
If you don't have the capacity then upgrade. =20
Hell I know a company not too far away from where I'm sitting that could
provide a shit kicking infrastructure for NZ, just on the yearly profit of =
major NZ telco. I'm sure Roger knows one too.
Contrast this attitude with the following examples
Texas - ISDN is flatrate
India - Government moving towards providing free ISDN installs and usage =
promote internet use.
NZ - bleeding every last cent out of it's population for even adaquate =
There are serious bandwidth users in NZ. While I do not personally wish =
carry any particular flame for Telecom NZ, I do know
that Peter Jackson =
had very good co-operation in having his on and off
shore needs for very
large bandwidth met by them (no doubt at a cost!).
But I'm sure that TNZ would be more than happy to lease me a pair of dark =
if I were on a movie making budget. Thats not really the point is it? =
point is not really how much bandwidth there is it's how accessable this
bandwidth is to the everyday person.
The Internet in NZ has (& is) expanded (ing) very
quickly. NZ has one =
the top 10 Internet penetrations in the world (ahead
of Australia, all =
middle and southern Europe and miles ahead of Korea
and the rest of =
Sometimes penetration is not a very accurate measure of things.
Imagine a small island in the South Pacific which has a population of ten
people. Six of them have Internet access. WOW thats 60%, best we call =
country the most developed on the planet due to it's Internet penetration.
Just because a third of the country has cellphones doesn't mean that NZ is =
the leading edge of cellular technology (Telecom is still dragging itself =
of the analog world for heavens sake).
Similarly, just because a large percentage of the population has Internet
access does not mean that they are doing anything greater with it than =
email and looking at the web.
How many houses do you think host their own content in NZ?
How many stream video?
How many on sell value added net services?
How many (outside Wellington) have all their services (Phone, net, TV) =
on a single digital feed?
These are the sort of stats that tell the real story.
I'd be interested in a statistic that measured how much bandwidth the =
person in a country had access to for the average wage. MAN! NZ wouldn't =
the top ten of that one.
I am also very
concerned about the apparent denigration of the need to develop and =
post industrial economic models for NZ (ie the
knowledge economy) by =
politicians and media commentators in the current
Because the public doesn't care. This goes back to what Josh was saying =
the culture being different in NZ. A Political party who stood up and =
that they would give free Internet to every home in NZ would only be =
a fringe factor slightly larger than if their stance was to abolish the =
Huge chunks of the public really don't give a toss.
Take Coronation Street off the air for a couple of days on the other =
But, Josh, if you really have a concern it has to be
better directed and
expressed than the comments you make in your post.
I don't think he cares really. He just had something to say. I don't =
he's running for office, although anyone can be a Congressman these days =
Don't get me wrong in all this. I'm proud to be a Kiwi. I promote NZ in =
favourable way everywhere I go in the world. I just think that in this =
they are lagging behind.
Dean Pemberton - dp(a)lucent.com
Escalation Engineer with the Company Formally Known As Ascend
Lucent Technologies - Lvl 38, 55 Collins St, Melbourne 3000, Australia
To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz
where the body of your message reads: