Wed Apr 28 21:01:25 NZST 2004
At 17:35 28/04/2004 Gavin Denby did say...
>There's good stuff there anyway.
>I need to continue with micro's, and while I like assembler, (really
>efficient code.) and I can think in terms of registers. :-) the drive in
>the industry is have a C front end for the Micro-controller software. So I
>need to learn C. but that said, yes.
You may be amazed at the advances in C compilers these days, the overhead
can be as good as 1% and in most cases none. The worst case I have seen is
3%, but that was some complex coding..
Even coding in C you are still very aware of registers and I tend to code
to suite the limitations of the micro in order to avoid stack usage.
>I need to write the PC stuff now-days. as everyone wants to control the
>units we make from a PC, or manipulate the data they have collected.
Tell me about it, if it cannot plug into $3000 of hardware to do anything
with it then it is frowned upon<grin>
>SO its looking like C++ for now, I'll phone around, someone must be
>teaching this, and Maybe I can squeeze a seat from a provider where this
>is just part of a larger course or something
As I mentioned a lot of training providers offer VC++ for the NZQA
qualifications, have not found any that offer gcc, but NZQA is owned by
mickysoft so what do you expect<grin>
>Unless someone has free time and wants to do some tutoring. I tend to try
>to put in linux solutions, unless I have to put it into windows.
Seriously have a look at Kylix, it may cost, but it is a good RAD solution
and an evaluation version can be obtained.
Also the teach yourself C books are very good, they assume you have BASIC
programming experience or some none at all and they may not make a guru of
you, but you will get a solid grounding.
>On Wednesday, April 28, 2004, at 05:22 PM, Michael Cree wrote:
>>I happen to disagree with that, for two reasons:
>>1) Object oriented programming is hugely overrated.
>>2) What C++/Java/C# etc compilers are there for microcontrollers?
>>Having said that, I have to admit C is not a good teaching language as it
>>allows the programmer to program very badly. Other languages impose
>>constraints which force good programming practices, and for learning to
>>program, they are to be preferred.
>>But, as you say, you aim is to program microcontrollers effectively and
>>efficiently. There is only one language (other than various assembly
>>languages) you need to learn, and that is C. So ignore the computer
>>scientists, who do not know what they are talking about - they have never
>>programmed microcontrollers - and learn C.
>>I think the best book is Kernighan and Ritchie. They wrote C and in
>>their book they explain the justifications for why C is the way it
>>is. Furthermore they write good C. The main problem is, the book is too
>>expensive and I understand that they are not updating it for C99 (mind
>>you, the second criticism may not be an issue for microcontroller
>>compilers, since due to low sales, are not going to be in a hurry to
>>update their compilers to the new standard).
>>Having written the above I now see that your history was writing for
>>microcontrollers and now you want to program PCs. Doh. Can't be
>>stuffed rewriting this now....
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