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DrWho? x_files_@i...
Wed Apr 28 21:01:25 NZST 2004


At 17:35 28/04/2004 Gavin Denby did say...

>There's good stuff there anyway.
>
>I need to continue with micro's, and while I like assembler, (really 
>efficient code.) and I can think in terms of registers.  :-)  the drive in 
>the industry is have a C front end for the Micro-controller software. So I 
>need to learn C. but that said, yes.

You may be amazed at the advances in C compilers these days, the overhead 
can be as good as 1% and in most cases none. The worst case I have seen is 
3%, but that was some complex coding..

Even coding in C you are still very aware of registers and I tend to code 
to suite the limitations of the micro in order to avoid stack usage.

>I need to write the PC stuff now-days. as everyone wants to control the 
>units we make from a PC, or manipulate the data they have collected.

Tell me about it, if it cannot plug into $3000 of hardware to do anything 
with it then it is frowned upon<grin>

>SO its looking like C++ for now, I'll phone around, someone must be 
>teaching this, and Maybe I can squeeze a seat from a provider where this 
>is just part of a larger course or something

As I mentioned a lot of training providers offer VC++ for the NZQA 
qualifications, have not found any that offer gcc, but NZQA is owned by 
mickysoft so what do you expect<grin>


>Unless someone has free time and wants to do some tutoring. I tend to try 
>to put in linux solutions, unless I have to put it into windows.
>

Seriously have a look at Kylix, it may cost, but it is a good RAD solution 
and an evaluation version can be obtained.

Also the teach yourself C books are very good, they assume you have BASIC 
programming experience or some none at all and they may not make a guru of 
you, but you will get a solid grounding.

>On Wednesday, April 28, 2004, at 05:22  PM, Michael Cree wrote:
>>I happen to disagree with that, for two reasons:
>>
>>1) Object oriented programming is hugely overrated.
>>2) What C++/Java/C# etc compilers are there for microcontrollers?
>>
>>Having said that, I have to admit C is not a good teaching language as it 
>>allows the programmer to program very badly.  Other languages impose 
>>constraints which force good programming practices, and for learning to 
>>program, they are to be preferred.
>>
>>But, as you say, you aim is to program microcontrollers effectively and 
>>efficiently.  There is only one language (other than various assembly 
>>languages) you need to learn, and that is C.  So ignore the computer 
>>scientists, who do not know what they are talking about - they have never 
>>programmed microcontrollers - and learn C.
>>
>>I think the best book is Kernighan and Ritchie.  They wrote C and in 
>>their book they explain the justifications for why C is the way it 
>>is.  Furthermore they write good C.  The main problem is, the book is too 
>>expensive and I understand that they are not updating it for C99 (mind 
>>you, the second criticism may not be an issue for microcontroller 
>>compilers, since due to low sales, are not going to be in a hurry to 
>>update their compilers to the new standard).
>>
>>Having written the above I now see that your history was writing for 
>>microcontrollers and now you want to program PCs.   Doh.   Can't be 
>>stuffed rewriting this now....
>>
>>Michael.
>>
>>
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